Rock Fern at Kangaroo Valley, NSW
Identification history
| Cheilanthes sp. | 10 Nov 2023 | dcnicholls | ||
| Cheilanthes sieberi subsp. sieberi | 1 Nov 2023 | Tapirlord | ||
| Cheilanthes sieberi | 29 Oct 2023 | lbradleyKV |
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17 comments
Tapirlord
wrote:
29 Oct 2023
Well, perhaps I shall keep my thoughts veiled for now and see what Kevin has to say.
lbradleyKV
wrote:
31 Oct 2023
I don’t think Kevin is going to help with this one Ciaran so would you unveil your thoughts please? I don’t expect a confirmation but do you think it might be Cheilanthes sp.?
Tapirlord
wrote:
1 Nov 2023
Pretty sure Cheilanthes sieberi, the fronds are pretty leathery and arranged correctly for that species.
plants
wrote:
1 Nov 2023
I have ben away.
The hairs below one frond may suggest C. distans, but this may be because it is a young plant of either spp.
I am not going to commit myeslf.
The hairs below one frond may suggest C. distans, but this may be because it is a young plant of either spp.
I am not going to commit myeslf.
lbradley
wrote:
1 Nov 2023
But will you commit yourself to Cheilanthes sp.? It would make me happy. 😊
Of course Ciaran has approved it so I am happy. 😊
Of course Ciaran has approved it so I am happy. 😊
lbradleyKV
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
Hey Ciaran - any way you can add Cheilanthes sp as an option? If Kevin thinks it might be C. distans I don’t feel comfortable with it being identified as C. sieberi.
dcnicholls
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
You can't rule our C. austrotenuifolia, it all depends on how the fronds develop. So Cheilanthes sp. is as far as we can go so far.
lbradley
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
Yes, but Cheilanthes sp. is not an option. The list to choose from only includes species
lbradley
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
Note this is on SCNM not CNM. CNM includes the genus option but SCNM does not.
Tapirlord
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
I mean, it would we could easily add it here. You just need to make the suggestion off the global list. But I am still happy calling this C.sieberi, the upper surface appears glabrous which rules out distans. The fronds are also pretty narrow, which makes it fairly unlikey for them to be C.austrotenuifolia, i have found that this species has pretty broad fronds even when young.
lbradleyKV
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
Ciaran - no offence but Kevin literally wrote the book, Ferns of the South Coast, and if he doesn’t want to go beyond genus, that is my preference. Also, I have no idea how to choose from the global list.
dcnicholls
wrote:
10 Nov 2023
I have just added Cheilanthes sp. using the global option to use that identity.
Tapirlord
wrote:
11 Nov 2023
From Entwisle, T.J. (1994). Ferns and allied plants (Psilophyta, Lycopodiophyta, Polypodiophyta)
Cheilanthes distans:
Undersurface of pinnules thickly beset with hairs and/or scales; lamina dark green to grey-green
Cheilanthes austrotenuifolia:
Lamina mostly 3–10 cm wide, triangular to ovate, 3-pinnate; pinnae close together; undersurface of rachis and midrib with scattered fine scales and few hairs
Cheilanthes sieberi:
Lamina mostly 2–3 cm wide, oblong to ovate, 2-pinnate (or 3-pinnate near base); pinnae well separated; undersurface of rachis and midrib with scattered segmented hairs (many appressed and glandular) and few scales
Employing this, Lisa's images contain enough detail to confirm C.sieberi. Her second image is particularly useful. I realise that is not possible to assign a species ID based soley upon the compressed images presented by Naturemapr, and I would encourage all interested to view the original photographs as is possible with moderator status.
The lamina of these plants is oblong or ovate, certainly not triangular. The pinnae are well seperated and are paired. The undersurface is not thickly beset with hairs, and the foliage is light-green. I note that these points are not my own, and hence should be considered irrespective of my perceived knowledge or experience.
Cheilanthes distans:
Undersurface of pinnules thickly beset with hairs and/or scales; lamina dark green to grey-green
Cheilanthes austrotenuifolia:
Lamina mostly 3–10 cm wide, triangular to ovate, 3-pinnate; pinnae close together; undersurface of rachis and midrib with scattered fine scales and few hairs
Cheilanthes sieberi:
Lamina mostly 2–3 cm wide, oblong to ovate, 2-pinnate (or 3-pinnate near base); pinnae well separated; undersurface of rachis and midrib with scattered segmented hairs (many appressed and glandular) and few scales
Employing this, Lisa's images contain enough detail to confirm C.sieberi. Her second image is particularly useful. I realise that is not possible to assign a species ID based soley upon the compressed images presented by Naturemapr, and I would encourage all interested to view the original photographs as is possible with moderator status.
The lamina of these plants is oblong or ovate, certainly not triangular. The pinnae are well seperated and are paired. The undersurface is not thickly beset with hairs, and the foliage is light-green. I note that these points are not my own, and hence should be considered irrespective of my perceived knowledge or experience.
lbradleyKV
wrote:
11 Nov 2023
Well done Ciaran! It’s between you experts. If Kevin wants to weigh in again I’ll be fascinated by the discussion. 😊
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Nearby sightings
Location information
- Places Kangaroo Valley, NSW
Sighting information
- 4 - 15 Abundance
- 29 Oct 2023 12:03 PM Recorded on
- lbradleyKV Recorded by
-
Collections
KV native plants
Additional information
- False In flower
Species information
- Cheilanthes sp. Scientific name
- Rock Fern Common name
- Not Sensitive
- Local native
- Non-Invasive
- Up to 1034m Recorded at altitude
- Machine learning
-
In flower
Record quality
- Images or audio
- More than one media file
- Confirmed by an expert moderator
- Nearby sighting(s) of same species
- GPS evidence of location
- Description
- Additional attributes
